More Than a Logo: The Story Behind Baker’s Brand Refresh

[00:00:03] Matthew Elban: Alright. Well, welcome back to Under the Roof. Uh, this is a
podcast where we look at what’s really under the hood of one of the oldest and most
experienced roofing contractors in the industry. We’re talking strategy, partnerships,
innovation, uh, history, and the people who made it all work and make it all work. At the
end of the day, this is about what makes Baker tick, and there’s a lot more under there
than what most people realize.
[00:00:29] Todd Kavanaugh: So today, we have a very special guest. Uh, someone I’ve
gotten to know over the last year half or so and, um, really have come to respect and
not just because he has a really cool accent. Uh, it’s Dave Hardy, and he’s with us today.
He is the executive vice president of brand strategy at ThinkShift. Um, Baker Roofing
has recently partnered with ThinkShift. Um, they’re a marketing creative agency based
out of, uh, Canada. And on something we’re really generally proud of, a brand refresh,
and we’re excited to share that with you today. Dave, welcome to Under the Roof.
[00:01:06] Dave Hardy: Thanks thanks for having me. Uh, I’m excited to be here, and,
uh, and thanks for the lovely introduction. It’s, uh, it’s been a fabulous few months
working with you folks.
[00:01:18] Matthew Elban: So, Dave, before we get into all of the questions we’ve got
lined up for you, I have to acknowledge something really important. Um, a a bit back
when I first met Dave, um, I found out he’s a fellow Manchester United supporter,
which immediately tells you that he has excellent taste. Um, and then there’s Todd
who’s sitting over there in his lonely seat as a Villa fan. One point behind United the
table right now, one point, and somehow Todd walks in here like that gap doesn’t exist.
But, Dave, I want you to know you’re not alone in the studio. So
[00:01:51] Dave Hardy: I hear you. It’s, uh, uh, yeah. The one of my favorite things was
coming down to see see all of you, and then all the Premier League chat walking around
was just the best. I felt immediately at home.
[00:02:01] Matthew Elban: Yeah. Well, you we want you to feel at home here. So, um,
with that being said, I always start this off with one question. I ask everybody this
question. I’ve always enjoyed asking it, hearing the answers, and I do have a list going
of of the answers. So, Dave, what is the last book you’ve read, and what did you take
away from it?
[00:02:20] Dave Hardy: Oh, gosh. What a fantastic question. The last book that I read.
Uh, do you know what? This is gonna sound very boring, Todd. The last book that I read
is a book that I’ve read about 400 times, but I read it almost every month is, uh, The
Brand Gap by Marty Girmaier. Okay. Um, and, uh, this is disgusting. Look at it. Oh my

gosh. Uh, the, um, but it is I would consider it my my go to for all things brand. And the
reason I read it so much because it reminded it just takes me back to, uh, when I first
got into a whole branding thing. And and, uh, um, and if you wanted to make it very
simple and understandable, this is the book to read, and it just clarifies so much. Um,
and it also brings to importance the whole idea of brand. So as boring and as obvious
as that is, that’s the book. I I read it almost once a month just to kinda remind myself of
of, uh, the power of all of this. So yeah.
[00:03:25] Matthew Elban: Well, I’m putting it on my list, so it’s it’s there.
[00:03:28] Todd Kavanaugh: It’s been a while since I’ve read it, but I I you have now
just inspired me. I need to And the lessons are there, and they need to be taught every
single time.
[00:03:37] Dave Hardy: Yeah. And why I read it is I’m a really slow reader, and, uh, and
and I can actually it’s got really big type. It sounds really stupid, but it’s really big type,
and I can read it on a plane. And that was the whole idea of keeping it short and simple.
So There
[00:03:50] Matthew Elban: you go.
[00:03:50] Dave Hardy: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:52] Todd Kavanaugh: I love that. We’re not probably gonna get into it today, but
I love I see the archetypes sitting there behind you as well. Yep. And that may come out
in the conversation a little bit today. Um, and, uh, I love I love that and what it’s meant
for us and how we’ve helped frame our brand. So, hey, let’s get into it. Um, talking
about brand. So when ThinkShift first engaged with Baker, uh, Dave, you kinda came in
a little bit as an outsider, uh, with an outside perspective on a a 111 year old company.
What was your first impression? And and it doesn’t have to be, like, the polished, this is
what you wanna hear version. Um, but, I mean, what did you actually see when you
started doing some of your discovery work, uh, here at Baker?
[00:04:39] Dave Hardy: Well, it’s what I saw, but it’s what I felt. So two two different
things. So what I saw immediately, um, Todd, I think I was working with you on a small
project before we actually started, but, uh, I immediately saw the, uh, always good
work sign. I I remember seeing it. I remember it coming up, and I remember seeing that.
And I remember thinking, this is something unique. This is something I have not seen
before. And, um, uh, immediately, I was intrigued by the story behind that idea. Mhmm.
Like, unbelievable. Just the way it was presented as well as a designer, uh, being my
history, just the way it was put forward, just the the way it looks. Everything about it, I I
there was an immediate something there where I thought there’s something unique
here. There’s some something I need to scratch away at here to to get to a real core
story. Um, so that’s what I saw. I remember seeing that. I remember thinking that’s a
that’s interesting. That’s got my attention, which in branding is really, really important.
And then when I came down, this is what I felt. Um, there is a family community aspect

to what you guys do, what you bring, who you are, and I felt it. I felt it in the way that
you all talk to me. I felt it in the inviting nature of the conversation. I felt it in the
Premier League football talk. Anything, everything. I felt it. I felt it in the way that you
were talking. It was like I I I was being invited into a very warm family, and it that is
unique. And so when I those two things, right, that was my introduction. That was my
handshake into the brand was through those two two key key pieces. And immediately,
when you start to see and feel those things, you wanna build connections and tell
stories around that because it’s unique. You don’t get that everywhere. And, um, that
was special. I I remember I remember thinking that and feeling that.
[00:06:49] Todd Kavanaugh: Well, you know, I I somebody shared this phrase with me
a while ago. Um, it’s hard to read the label from inside the bottle. And sometimes when
you’re, like, living in the bottle for so long, you start to get kind of normalize that
experience. Right? And having somebody come in from the outside and read that label
and say, hey. This is this is what it feels like to experience you guys, um, is validating
with what I think, you know, Matt and I get to live in every day. Of course, you know,
we’re workplace. There’s you know? And we do work, and sometimes work, there’s
friction. But at the end of the day, um, it it feels great to hear somebody validate, like,
that team that we want to be and aspire to be, um, as a company. So
[00:07:30] Matthew Elban: Yeah. I mean, I think, Todd, you and I probably had those
experiences, um, when we first came, and our company’s changed, obviously, in the
last twenty years and and beyond that. But, um, we’ve had those experiences where
we’ve come in and maybe we were we felt welcomed right away. We jumped right onto
a team and we were making an impact and and and the business was going great. And
then we’ve also seen situations where people have come in that maybe hasn’t, uh, fit.
But you you used a phrase there a minute ago. Um, it wasn’t just about what, uh, you
see, but it’s about what you felt. And there is an element of, uh, and I’m sure you’re
gonna get into this. But when I think of branding, I think about what you feel
sometimes. It’s not just what you see. Yeah. We all recognize a logo. Right? But it’s it’s
way more than just that. And so I’m excited for this conversation about that. Um,
[00:08:18] Dave Hardy: yeah. You know, as a as a designer, it’s really easy to fall into
that that trap and of of, uh, you know, brand is the logo. Brand is, uh, brand is, uh, you
know, the visual side, the visual identity of event of of of any company, any business.
But you’re absolutely right, man. It’s massive. It’s a huge part of it. And so it it goes way
beyond, uh, visual. It goes way beyond, um, you know, any kind of visual organization
or, uh, you know, structure or anything like that. It is about storytelling, and it is
interwoven. Brand strategy is interwoven into business strategy. Like, the two go hand
in hand. And so whenever you’re building your business strategy, brand is, uh, I
remember drawing this on a terribly on a, um, white sheet of paper when I was there. It
was almost like a double helix brand strategy, business strategy. Uh, your business

strategy is your business strategy. It’s how are you gonna grow. It’s, you know, uh,
where are your customers? Um, what type of customers? It is, uh, margins. It’s making
sure your business is operating in a in a really fantastic way that drives value for
everybody. Brand strategy is what your customers need from you. They need a
connection. They need to know that you’re there. They need to know that you’re
authentic in what you’re gonna deliver. And you need to understand the relationship
between those two things. Tell that story consistently. Drive to matter to people. And,
um, uh, you know, uh, that will inform your business and help you drive your business
strategy. So it’s much more than a visual. It’s a storytelling ability to create meaning for
people, to create connection, to stand out, um, to make sense, and to make it easy to
work with, and you do all those things, you’re you’re doing it right.
[00:10:22] Todd Kavanaugh: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:24] Matthew Elban: Um, so when you’re doing your brand discovery work, uh,
and you’re you’re asking, I’m sure, questions and whatnot, But with a company that has
as much history as as Baker does, how do you begin? What are you listening for? What
are you listening to? Who are you listening to?
[00:10:39] Dave Hardy: Yeah. You wanna get a good sense of of the things I just, uh,
talked about. So we we are we interviewed, uh, a big selection of the executive team,
uh, Mark, uh, and tried to get a good overview of a few different areas. So, um, kind of
the differentiation is important and the perception of differentiation within the
organization. I think that was a key area of of what everybody believed made them
stand out. Um, again, differentiation is a massive massive component of branding and,
you know, you gotta stand out. You gotta be different and, uh, to get noticed, to cut
through the clutter. So understanding what everybody thought was their differentiator
was was was really key. Culture Culture and who you are and how you, um, you know,
the expectations you set for each other, the the communication type you have for
each other. Like, the the the family aspect that I felt when I was there, that’s your
culture in action. And and that was very, very important to get a a good understanding
of your audience, where you wanna grow the business. And, uh, um, digging into that
was, uh, is vital because we gotta understand, again, how does the brand support that
growth? How does the brand support, um, successful business? And then what we’re
looking for is alignment. Uh, and we’re looking for misalignment. And, um, one thing we
saw was a lot of alignment. We saw a lot of alignment in a lot of those areas, and that’s
really what we’re looking for. That guided so much of how we structured then the
workshops was based around the feedback we got in that discovery session. So
[00:12:28] Todd Kavanaugh: Matt, let’s, um, skip the next two because I think this is
there’s a good segue for for this here, and we kinda covered that. So I love that the the
workshop aspect of it, Dave. Um, you know, one of the things that I think, uh, for the
internal team here at Baker that was attracted to ThinkShift was was your process and

the in in approach that ThinkShift and you take to walking a company through this. I
think, like, so often uh, I wanna say so often, but we have seen in the past, um, agencies
step in and try to tell this is who you are rather than go through a well thought out
protracted process that draws out that identity that already exists. Um, so I’d say, like,
for anyone listening who hasn’t been through, like, a brand engagement like this
[00:13:26] Dave Hardy: Yep.
[00:13:27] Todd Kavanaugh: Um, walk us through a little bit. I know you can’t go
through all of it, but walk us
[00:13:31] Dave Hardy: through a
[00:13:31] Todd Kavanaugh: little bit, um, what that actually looks like. You know, not
like like the deliverables, but the actual process. Yeah. Um, what are the hard parts and
what are the things that, like, sometimes get uncomfortable? I know that there were
moments for our team that we kept we sat there arguing back and forth. Um, but talk a
little bit about the process so that people understand what that looks like.
[00:13:52] Dave Hardy: Yeah. So fundamentally, you touched on it right there, Todd,
right at the beginning. Fundamentally, I mean, yes, I could absolutely walk into, uh, you
know, Baker and and tell you what I think you need to be, and you could tell me to
leave, uh, if, you know, and then nothing changes and, uh, if you don’t agree with it. But,
yeah, at the end of the day, this is your brand. This is your brand. So this whole
workshop is geared to towards everybody in that room, the leadership in that room,
setting course for the rest of this organization. My role is to facilitate that and to guide
and to make sure that we’re touching on the right areas and and and having that
conversation and encouraging those fights and interactions. That’s my role. But the
process itself is is built around that idea. Uh, so we set the stage, and then it’s very
much individual group work. And I think we start at the very top of of of that messaging
pyramid. So we start with the vision, where we’re going. We start with, uh, and again,
we have group exercises around that. We, you know, break off into groups. We have
individual. We come together. We review the work. We had stickies. Well, I’ve got some
stickies here. I still got them, Todd. Mhmm. We’ve got all the stickies. We stick things on
the walls. We very interactive. So we start with the vision, then we get into the mission.
Mission was really interesting in this workshop. The mission was probably my favorite
moment in all of the the workshops. Again, ask ask the question is, where where is the
value that the baker creates for its, uh, audience and and and really, again, unpack that
and the purpose the purpose. Beyond making money, what why does Baker Roofing
exist? And and asking those very difficult questions. And that’s a difficult question. You
ask Yep. Many executive team members beyond making money. And as soon as you say
that, there’s like a, oh, wow. Uh, that’s a thing. Um, it’s a hard question to ask because,
you know, the the goal of many organizations is to you have to make money.
[00:16:06] Todd Kavanaugh: Yeah.

[00:16:06] Dave Hardy: So there’s a lot of challenge around that. There’s a lot of
challenge around setting a vision. That’s hard. That’s a hard thing to do. And
understanding about value, very hard thing to do. The next part of the process was
onlyness. We call it the onlyness process. So that’s the process of understanding what
makes you different. Uh, I got the tennis ball. I did the tennis ball. Right? The tennis ball
thing? Okay. Matt, I don’t remember you would you if I had 12 if I had 12 tennis balls in a
basket and I launched them out here, I threw them out here. How many do you think
you would catch?
[00:16:39] Matthew Elban: Two.
[00:16:40] Dave Hardy: Two?
[00:16:40] Matthew Elban: I think I can get two. If you want if you
[00:16:42] Dave Hardy: do it all at once. Just like like that.
[00:16:45] Matthew Elban: Just if you did it all at once, I I can get two.
[00:16:47] Dave Hardy: Two. Okay. Well, we tried it. We did it. Uh, we we throw, uh,
actually, we used to beat oranges, which was dangerous. They’re heavy. So you launch
all these oranges at people, and people just kinda cower. And they, uh, they’re just
trying not to get hit. Um, but if I threw one tennis ball at you, how many would you
catch?
[00:17:06] Matthew Elban: I’m pretty sure I
[00:17:07] Dave Hardy: can get it. You’d get the one. I actually did this with somebody
at ThinkShift right in front of a client once, and he dropped it. He dropped the one.
Anyway
[00:17:16] Todd Kavanaugh: The analogy broke down. But that didn’t work.
[00:17:19] Dave Hardy: So, um, but that’s the whole idea of only. That’s the whole idea
of you got one moment to cut through the clutter, to make people stop and go, That’s
really interesting. In a world that’s so competitive right now, you’ve got one message to
throw, uh, and for people to catch. And, um, that’s the idea of onlyness of
differentiation, one idea to throw forward. And I think that, uh, was at the heart of the
process. That’s very difficult to do. So we do a lot of storytelling. We get a lot of stuff
on the wall. We do a lot of dotting of stickers, and we have that conversation about
how do we take all of this language and drill down into the one thing that’s gonna make
you set apart from everybody else, um, and have them say yes to you, have them
matter.
[00:18:09] Todd Kavanaugh: And the and these are for those listening. Um, these are
things that now have been defined by a pretty big team, um, and we’ll be sharing these
with you, providing resources to to help you, um, in in understanding what some of
these values are. And I think the beauty is is when you read these, none of them are
gonna be a surprise. That was what was really cool about this whole thing. You guys
just helped surface the identity and put some new language around, um, who we

already are. Um, and so that was and and to the mission point, one of my favorite
outcomes of this was, you know, we’ve had this this sign that’s existed with our
company for over a hundred and ten, eleven years. Um, and now it actually and we’d
always, like, not really know how to refer to this. It’s like our tagline. It’s our sign. We
don’t it’s our always good work sign. And somebody says, well, what is the mission of
Baker Roofing Company? It’s we shall do good work, profit if we can, loss if we must,
but always good work. Um, so, yeah, we could talk a lot more about the process. It was
fantastic. If you got questions, you can reach out to Dave at Deepgram. But, uh, but,
yeah, thank you thank you for for sharing that, Dave.
[00:19:22] Dave Hardy: That’s alright. I could talk about it all day. It’s it’s, uh, honestly,
it’s so much fun.
[00:19:28] Matthew Elban: Dave, um, a lot of companies approach this kind of work
that you did with us, and they end up with something that looks great. It looks amazing
maybe, but it just doesn’t get used. Right? It maybe it lives in a PDF somewhere or it
just goes into a file on their computer screen and they don’t really look at it any longer.
So what separates brand work that actually takes hold and takes root from brand work
that just kinda gets filed away and forgotten? Well,
[00:19:57] Dave Hardy: two things. Number one, you really have to believe it.
[00:20:02] Matthew Elban: Mhmm.
[00:20:03] Dave Hardy: You have to believe it, and you have to have a team that is
100% behind it. And, uh, if they’re not, it it will just get put away. And so that’s number
one. You’re gonna be all in all in on it. Every because it drives every aspect of of the
organization. And then that passion, that desire, the clarity that it brings, you’ve gotta
have a group of people who are just so dedicated and passionate to pushing it to every
corner of the organization of sharing those stories at every moment that is is, um, of of
of just influencing and making people believe in this idea. The beauty of what you have
is that idea has existed in your organization for over a hundred years. It is so much a
part of you that that it’s it just talk about it all the time. So, um, you know, I’d love to be
able to tell you that it comes in spreadsheets and it comes in all those things, but I
think it’s in the heart. You’ve gotta
[00:21:15] Todd Kavanaugh: Yeah.
[00:21:15] Dave Hardy: It’s gotta be leadership driven, and it’s gotta come through at
every every pore of an organization, every experience in the organization.
[00:21:23] Matthew Elban: Yeah. It probably has to be so tangible and and palpable, the
feel of it
[00:21:28] Dave Hardy: Mhmm.
[00:21:28] Matthew Elban: Right, to your customers. We talked a little bit ago about,
well, why would someone choose Baker Roofing? What’s your only well, part of your
onlyness is probably that, that we care so deeply about where we work and that we

wanna do the right thing and always good work here that people as a customer, they
wanna be a part of that too, you know?
[00:21:47] Dave Hardy: Yep. And that was the key. So much of the key to this whole
story, your story, uh, was the mission, the value, the the way you that what I felt when I
came down, the way you treat people, that, uh, you know, that that idea of elevating
doing the right thing even at a loss if you must, it’s in the sign. It’s right there. It’s so
much a part of your culture to do the right thing by people, to do the right thing to
make sure the relationship stays at a level that it needs to high integrity. People feel
that. People need that more now than ever before, and it is an absolute the way you
treat people is a is a is a way to stand out and a way to differentiate. And, um, yeah, it
sort of was clear as the next
[00:22:44] Matthew Elban: to my next question, which is is is this a try my best to
frame this right for you. Baker Roofing Company been around since 1915. It’s a hundred
and eleven years. It’s a lot of history. It’s a lot of people who’ve given their careers to
this place. There’s a lot of customers who have long standing generational relationships
with us. How do you, as a a a brand, uh, guy, right, that’s what you you do, how do you
approach brand evolution at a company like this where the stakes of getting it wrong,
um, alienating the people who built it are that high?
[00:23:23] Dave Hardy: Yeah. Because you can. It’s you know, I Todd, when I think we
first met, I think this was one of our core conversations. Um, you you have to
understand the history. You have to understand the legacy. You have to make sure that
that look. There’s a reason you’re successful today. There’s a reason you’re here, and
you have to be very conscious that you are not here just to create something new and
shiny and amazing. You have to look at the value. You have to look at the value you’re
creating, and you have to make sure that that value makes sense. That just you know,
we do this. We do this all the time. I I shouldn’t maybe I shouldn’t say agencies do this
all the time. It’s new. It’s exciting. It’s it’s it’s always it’s like, is does it serve the strategy?
Is it serving the business? Is it serving the customers that are with you today? Um, is it
serving is it serving your people? Like, you know? And so to me, it’s about extracting
what is inherently you, what is inherently different about you, what is and and making
that sing. Mhmm. Because that’s that in essence is, um, we have our damn model
different, authentic, relevant, and evocative. The authentic piece is so important in a
legacy brand like Baker Roofing. The authentic part is so important. It’s about just
clarifying and extracting and singing it. And and, you know, focus on those words.
Focus on that story and sing it. And so that to me is the opportunity, Matt. I think it’s
too easy to create something new, fresh, but is it gonna stick? Is it is it gonna do
anything? Is, uh, are you are you putting at risk what you’ve built today? Probably.
[00:25:18] Todd Kavanaugh: Mhmm. Yeah. I love that concept of, um, of singing it. You
know? I I think, um, we we’ve talked a lot about brand, and I feel like, wow. We should

actually talk about what, like, brand is. You know? I know we, uh, we kinda knocked on
that a little bit in the beginning. One of my favorite, uh, definitions I’ve heard is, I think,
from a friend of yours, somebody you you know, Matt. Yep. Yeah. He had said that
brand is meaning, um, and it’s, like, meaning that people encounter when they
encounter you. It’s meaning that they place on you. And I love that he says, so then
branding is is the management of that meaning.
[00:26:02] Dave Hardy: That meaning.
[00:26:02] Todd Kavanaugh: Yep. Um, and so I’d love to hear your take on, like like,
what is brand? When somebody asks, like, what brand is, like, I I I like to tell people, like,
think about walking into that famous chicken place that we have here in the South with
your eyes closed, and you know exactly where you are within a few seconds without
with removing one of your senses. You can remove any one of your senses at a given
moment at that brand and know still where you are. Yep. And you and then the meaning
that that gives you and the experience that that gives you. So I I’d love for you to talk a
little bit about, like, brand in the context of Baker and brand in the context of of of
branding, um, for a company.
[00:26:49] Dave Hardy: Yeah. So I will tell you that I am, uh, I I love Matt to death, and I
think his meaning thing is is fantastic. I am a huge student of of Marty Neumeier. And,
um, and and I truly believe this idea of brand is a person’s gut feeling about a product,
service, or organization. It is that deep down you talk about sensors. It’s it’s like you just
know it. You just it is that gut feeling you have about something. When I think of Apple,
I I have a gut feeling about that company. FedEx. FedEx. I think fast. The gut feeling is is
fast and expensive. That’s the only way I think of.
[00:27:28] Todd Kavanaugh: Yeah.
[00:27:29] Dave Hardy: But that that gut feeling is really what brand is. Um, and here’s
the other story that I like to tell when what brand branding is. So Malcolm Gladwell in
his, uh, book Blink, he, uh, um, it’s that, uh, one second. You know, you shake
somebody’s hand, and I I remember doing this in the workshop, and I shook, um, I can’t
remember who it was. I shook their hand, and it’s really limp, awful, sweaty, gross
handshake. And and in that moment, I said, okay. Well, what brand do I have to you in
that handshake?
[00:28:06] Matthew Elban: Yeah.
[00:28:06] Dave Hardy: And he’s like, gross. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t hire you. I I remember
that. I wouldn’t hire you. I don’t trust you. Uh, it’s disgusting. You know, that’s the brand.
That gut feeling and that handshake. And then I did it again and shook his hand, and it
was it looked in in the eye. It was strong handshake. The brand is different. In every
opportunity, and I talked about kind of how the brand needs to kind of, um, you know,
permeate through an organization, every touch point is that handshake. So managing
that touch point, that handshake to what you want it to be. You might want it to be

gross and sweaty. That might be a brand, but probably not. That’s the opportunity is is
is to create that gut feeling at every single point and be really absolutely clear on what
you want to be able, what that feeling needs to be. And Matt’s absolutely right. You
know, when we think of categories and we think of spaces that brands exist right now,
um, you you people’s brains are limited. We have a limited amount of ability to
concentrate on who’s doing what and saying what. Like, we have so much information
pouring into our lives every single day. The clarity of that message, uh, and you need to
impart that meaning of why we exist, what we’re doing here, and why we’re different.
We gotta be able to answer that question in one one second handshake. So to me, that
that’s what branding is. It’s the gut feeling. It is the, um, the feeling you get from any
brand when you walk into that place. Todd, you mentioned that. You just know where
you are. It’s that gut feeling. Yeah. And manage it. Look at every touch point.
Understand, get clarity, look at every touch point, and manage it. Manage that feeling.
It’s it it’s what it’s all about.
[00:29:53] Todd Kavanaugh: Yep. Yeah. Us marketing nerds like to talk about, um,
mental availability, right, for branding. Yep. And, um, in being in people have limited
mental availability. And so you want to be sure that you’re distinctive. Right? You said
that that word early. Um, in order to take up the space that is afforded to what people
think about, in our case, roofing. You know? Yep. So,
[00:30:19] Dave Hardy: um, Matt oh,
[00:30:20] Todd Kavanaugh: go ahead.
[00:30:21] Matthew Elban: Go ahead.
[00:30:21] Dave Hardy: There’s there’s a great quote here. Um, um, so, um, Herbert
Simon I think it was Herbert Simon. He wrote the attention economy. A wealth of
information creates a poverty of attention. And in our world right now
[00:30:32] Todd Kavanaugh: Yes.
[00:30:33] Dave Hardy: We we we have all the information at our fingertips. It’s, uh, it’s
and and oh, my gosh. Like, I just a tsunami of of information hitting you. So you gotta
really, like, have a very clear message. And
[00:30:52] Todd Kavanaugh: Yeah. I actually just wrote that one down, and that is a
fantastic the best quotes are the ones that you know immediately are true. Right? Um,
so, Matt, I I skipped my question because I thought it was was already answered. So if
you wanna
[00:31:08] Matthew Elban: Uh, the brand refresh one?
[00:31:09] Todd Kavanaugh: Sure. Yeah.
[00:31:11] Matthew Elban: Um, so, Dave, we chose this phrase, uh, brand refresh
intentionally. Wasn’t this isn’t a rebrand, Baker Roofing Company. What’s the difference
in practice? Why does that distinction even matter, uh, to the people inside the
organization?

[00:31:26] Dave Hardy: Well, I think a refresh to me is an all the work that the team did
is an acknowledgment of what you’re doing is working. And like I said earlier, to to
extract and clarify and sing. And, uh, and so it wasn’t it’s not a wholesale change to
your story. It’s not a wholesale change to the visual and how it’s expressed and the
touch points. It is a clarification, and it is, uh, refreshed. And and and I think it’s about
highlighting again what is great and what, again, you’re known for. Even the red
triangle. Red triangle is so important to this brand. It is people have attached and put
meaning to that. So it is a huge brand asset just as your mission, we shall do good work.
It’s a huge brand asset you’re known for. Leverage it. Leverage it. Sing it. Like, these are
the things that you’re known for and just apply meaning to them more consistently,
um, across the board. And, uh, and so I think that that’s to me what the difference
between a complete rebrand do redo and and a a a brand refresh. It was an
acknowledgment of what you are doing is working.
[00:32:47] Matthew Elban: Well, that’s probably good for for our people, uh, within
Baker to hear. Right? I mean, uh, this isn’t a scrap and restart. You know? It it No. What
is happening, what the people here are doing is working, um, and it’s a tweak. It’s a little
change here and there, so I’m excited for it.
[00:33:06] Todd Kavanaugh: Hop down because we’re at thirty three minutes, and I
wanted to keep this somewhere between thirty and forty. K. Um, so I’m gonna hop to
this one because I think Dave’s really gonna come alive on this question.
[00:33:16] Dave Hardy: Got it.
[00:33:18] Todd Kavanaugh: And so, uh, um, which is next to your last one.
[00:33:23] Matthew Elban: Okay.
[00:33:23] Todd Kavanaugh: So so, uh, Dave, you talked to us a little bit about this, um,
earlier in the conversation, but I kinda wanna give you, uh, another platform to talk
about it. Um, and what we’ve come to believe, and you see it and experience this out
for the brands that actually mean something to me. Mhmm. That brand only works if
people inside the organization believe it and Yep. And that they also live it. Can’t just be
a marketing exercise. Right? Brand is just not for the marketing team. Um, for our
employee owners, because we are a 100% employee owned company, um, who are
listening, uh, what does it actually look like to bring a brand to life as an employee?
What’s the role of someone who isn’t in marketing on a day to day basis?
[00:34:15] Dave Hardy: Oh, man. What a question. What a question. Um, you know,
again, I I think I think of somebody, you know, who has been a part of a brand who has,
uh, who’s been the not part of defining the brand, but living the brand and being asked
to kind of, you know, go out there and live that brand. But I’ve also been part of an
executive team who’s defined a brand and asking others to go out and do that. Belief is
absolutely at the core of this. Believing that there’s there’s there is something that you
are a part of that is truly, truly unique. And I can say, hands down, you have that you

have that going through you. So for everybody who, you know, wasn’t in the room, who
didn’t create this brand or didn’t come up with the the the refresh, to me, it’s, you
know, just be a really great person. I sorry. I can’t think of a better way of ex of of
saying this, but what the core of this brand is just the ability to to just be really good, a
good person to do to do the right thing, to make sure, you know, everyone’s delivering
when they should, the the the quality of work that is expected. And when things go
wrong, they go wrong, and then we just work to fix them and do the right thing. And
that, at its very core, is what this brand is all about, treating people well, valuing
relationships, And doing those things every single day and every single moment, both
internally, externally, is what this is all about. It is what this is all about. And if you can
just do that if you can just do that, you’re bringing this brand to life every single day.
And it is different. It is different. Not everybody’s doing this. And so for me, that
commitment, that that idea of of doing right by people is so so important. So, um, I
hope that answers your question, uh, in Yeah. I think
[00:36:43] Todd Kavanaugh: You know, it it really does, Dave. And, um, I love and I’ll I’ll
pause for a second, Matt. What do you think about and then I’ll talk about it. So what do
you think about having Dave read the manifesto? I’m trying to think of how long that
takes. Uh, we’ve read it to people, Dave, and peep like, we’ve had really great reactions
to it. Um, do you think it’s too long for the segment, Matt? What do you what’s your gut
on it?
[00:37:09] Matthew Elban: I don’t think it’s too long. I mean, we’re not this part here,
we’re gonna cut out anyway so we can kinda speak freely. But my my I’m wondering,
we need a recording of him doing it anyway.
[00:37:18] Dave Hardy: Yeah. I can read it. I got it in front of me.
[00:37:20] Todd Kavanaugh: So let let’s re let’s have you read it. Yeah. Then, like, we’ll
decide if we keep it or not depending on length. Yeah.
[00:37:26] Dave Hardy: Sure.
[00:37:27] Todd Kavanaugh: Um, so, um, I’ll do a lead in, and then, like, Matt, you’ll, you
can kinda close it out with that last question. Yep. Um, and we’ll show, um, okay. So I’ll
give a lead in for this now. Yeah, Dave. That that was fantastic. That that’s exactly it.
And I actually I would love for you, um, you wrote for us a manifesto, which we’ve
already had the opportunity to read to a handful of people here, and the reaction to it,
uh, has has been well, positive feels like not enough to say. Uh, but really the way I’ve
understood it and explained it to people, it’s kind of the distillation in a narrative of who
we are as a company that we are now trying to embody into Mhmm. Acts and language
of our company. So I know, uh, Dave, this is something you wrote and then read back to
us a couple months ago. Um, I think even I’ll I’ll leave her off. Somebody on my team
almost cried when you read it. Um, but I think I think it’s really powerful representing
what you just said. Um, so if you don’t mind reading it for us, that would be great.

[00:38:39] Dave Hardy: Yeah. You bet. Um, okay. Here we go. For more than a century,
Baker Roofing has stood on rooftops across Eastern the Eastern United State States,
not just building and repairing, but protecting what matters most beneath them. Every
business deserves protection they can trust. That’s why since the very beginning, our
mission has remained the same. We shall do good work at a profit if we can, at a loss if
we must, but always good work. It’s more than a motto. It’s a fundamental belief that
people come before profit. That doing the right thing, even when nobody is looking,
outweighs convenience and that a reputation is something earned project by project
and generation by generation. In an industry defined by private equity, transactions,
and broken promises, we choose to invest in a lifetime of relationships. Where others
chase scale, we build trust. We take the short term stress off our customers’ shoulders
and replace it with the peace of mind through clear communication, honest
partnerships, and a long term commitment to a way of working that stand stands the
test of time. We believe that every single person has a role to play, and their work has
impact across the community. We are a company of owners, not just in name, but in
spirit. Our ownership model means every person who wears the Baker name shares in
its success and carries its responsibility to one another, to our customers, and to the
standard we set for the roofing profession. That sense of stewardship shows up in
every decision we make and every roof we raise because when we do good work, we
lift everyone who does this work with us. We’re here to prove that doing right by
people isn’t a weakness. It’s our greatest strength. Because good work isn’t measured
in profit margins. It’s measured in trust earned, relationships built, promises kept over a
lifetime. Baker Roofing, for our people, for our customers, for our industry, for what’s
right.
[00:40:57] Todd Kavanaugh: Thank you, Dave. That, uh, I really do think, wraps up who
we are really, really well, and now it’s it’s our mission to go and live it. Right? Make that
true. I think it is true, but to prove that it’s true day in and day out. So
[00:41:13] Matthew Elban: Dave, last couple questions. Yeah. What what does look
good look like a few years from now? So you just read the manifesto, which is fantastic,
gives a really good idea of what we who we are, uh, how we should behave, what we
should be doing. But for Baker and for for what this work has set in motion with this
whole brand refresh, how do you know when a brand engagement has really worked?
[00:41:41] Dave Hardy: Uh, when it’s not been put in a drawer. Uh, like you said earlier,
that it’s being lived. Uh, it’s being believed. The stories are being told. Um, that’s one
way of measuring it. The other way of measuring it is you’re achieving your growth
goals. Mhmm. Because if you’re doing that right, then, you know, people are starting to
figure out that that’s your value and figuring out that’s what makes you different, and
people are gonna start coming to you. And, uh, that’s the beauty of brand. When you
get that right, it should really drive, um, significant business growth. It should drive

loyalty, which is the heart of brand equity. And, um, yeah. So there’s the business
aspect to it, but there’s also the people and heart aspect to it. And if those stories are
still being told Yeah. You know, I think of the stories of, uh, you know, at a loss if we
must stories, those stories of, like, when we’ve done the right thing, like, if those stories
are being told, then the brand is alive and well and Yeah. And, uh, so the two aspects,
the business and and and the people. Yeah. That’s that’s what it looks like.
[00:42:54] Matthew Elban: Well, Dave, we we certainly appreciate having you on here
and, uh, being, um, talking about one other thing that’s alive and well, and that’s
Manchester United’s opportunity to maybe get into the Champions League play next
year.
[00:43:05] Dave Hardy: We’re getting close to that. We’re getting your thoughts
[00:43:07] Matthew Elban: on, uh, or we’re really close. We I think we’re close to
clinching it, but, uh, you know, I don’t wanna speak too soon. You know?
[00:43:12] Dave Hardy: No. I got I got a good I’m feeling good, but, like, I’m excited to
watch him now, which is something. Yeah. No. It’s exciting to watch him.
[00:43:21] Matthew Elban: Yes. Talk about loyalty. Right? Brand new
[00:43:23] Todd Kavanaugh: points of success. Right?
[00:43:25] Dave Hardy: Yeah. Oh, man. It’s like, that my loyalty was tested over the last
couple
[00:43:29] Matthew Elban: of years. Agreed. Agreed.
[00:43:32] Todd Kavanaugh: Well, Dave, um, thank you so much. You know, this effort, I
know personally for me, not just being a marketer, but being a employee and, really, a
team member, I feel that more strongly than the word employee for the last twenty
plus years here at Baker. Um, I not only feel a sense of ownership because of our 100%
employee ownership, but in ownership because it’s been a brand that I’ve grown up
with. And so, uh, we appreciate the way that you have respected that and helped carry
us through that. Um, I have one last question for you. It’s the one we always close out,
uh, the episode with, and it is, what is on heavy rotation for you right now? What are
you it could be either what you’re listening to or what you’re streaming.
[00:44:18] Dave Hardy: Oh, I am Todd, this is probably gonna be one of the albums
that I’m gonna send you. Yeah. But it’s it’s, uh, Richard Ashcroft’s, um, uh, album here
that I remember the songs. Hang on. Bear with me for a second here. Yeah. Heavy
Rotation is right here. So the album is Human Conditions by, uh, by Richard Ashcroft
that nobody would know, uh, probably. Um, Richard Richard Ashcroft is a British singer
who, uh, uh, used to be the lead singer at the Verve back in the day and, um, does his
individual stuff, but it’s a few years old. But yeah. So that’s that’s on heavy rotation for
me every single day right now. For some reason, I have no idea why that is.

[00:45:04] Todd Kavanaugh: Well, I’ve got written down. I can attest. Dave and I
exchange, uh, album ideas back and forth. He’s got great taste. So if anybody’s looking
for a good rotation, Richard Ashcroft, Human Conditions.
[00:45:15] Dave Hardy: Yep. Yep. It’s a it’s a great album.
[00:45:22] Matthew Elban: So for everyone listening, whether you’ve, uh, you’ve been
with Baker for twenty years or twenty days, what you’re seeing and hearing right now is
who we’ve always been. Uh, we just said it better.
[00:45:35] Todd Kavanaugh: Yeah. So, um, like we always like to close, we shall do
good work at a profit if we can, at a loss if we must, but always good work. Thanks, um,
and we’ll see you soon.