Roofing That’s Built to Outlive Us All with Calvin Arrington

[00:00:02] Calvin Arrington:  If you’ve ever been on one of our roofs and you watch our teams that have worked together for a while, they move very similar to a well practiced pit crew. The margins that we work on, the x the difference between being an expert and a very quality product to a substandard or sometimes really slim margins is that attention to detail similar in f one that established as a market leader.

[00:00:24] Todd Kavanaugh:  Hey there, and welcome to Under the Roof, the official podcast of Baker Roofing Company. I’m Todd Cavanaugh.

[00:00:31] Matthew Elban:  And I’m Matt Elbon. And we’re here to connect the dots between field and office, leadership and crew, values and action.

[00:00:38] Todd Kavanaugh:  In each episode, we dive into the stories, lessons, and updates that matter to our team.

[00:00:45] Matthew Elban:  From safety and career growth to company milestones and good old fashioned storytelling, it’s all about living out what makes Baker, Baker. Let’s get into it. Welcome to Under the Roof, the podcast where we sit down with the crews, the leaders, the partners, and the customers who make baker, baker. And we have honest conversations about the work.

[00:01:08] Todd Kavanaugh:  I’m Todd Cavanaugh.

[00:01:10] Matthew Elban:  And I’m Matt Elman. On this show, we talk about where this industry has been, where it’s going, and the stories you don’t usually hear about commercial roofing.

[00:01:18] Todd Kavanaugh:  And today, we’re actually gonna spend some time in part of our business that honestly surprises a lot of people when they hear about it. So when folks think commercial roofer or roofing, they typically picture flat roofs, TPO, EPDM, big membrane systems. They don’t necessarily picture a slate quarry 1,800 feet underground in Spain or a hand laid tile roof on a historic resort.

[00:01:45] Matthew Elban:  Or a copper dome on a capitol building or work on cathedrals, courthouses, university campuses. These are the kinds of buildings that people drive past every day without realizing how much craft is sitting on top of them.

[00:02:00] Todd Kavanaugh:  But that’s a real and growing part of what we do here at Baker Roofing. Our guest today leads that group. Calvin Arrington, our senior vice president of commercial steep slope. Calvin, welcome to Under the Roof.

[00:02:12] Calvin Arrington:  Thank you, guys. Appreciate the opportunity to speak with you.

[00:02:15] Matthew Elban:  I’m excited about today’s topic. So first question, I always ask this question. It’s become one of my favorite things to get to know about people, and I have a running list of their answers. And so, Calvin, put you on the spot a little bit. We always like to start this the same way. What’s the last book you read, and what stuck with you from that book?

[00:02:33] Calvin Arrington:  The last book I’ve been through is seven tenths of a second by Zach Brown. He’s the CEO of McLaren Racing. I’m a big motorsports fan, fan of any kind of motorsports, and I’ve gotten into f one a lot more lately. But the Zach Brown book is not only about the exciting f one season in 2024. The title references seven tenths of a second, which was the margin of victory for their constructors championship. It’s a book about business. He took over a failing race team. He had to rebuild it with the leadership group all the way through engineering design. They brought in new drivers. So he talks through the importance of culture, and then he talks about how he approaches running that business with expertise. Lot of parallels to what I do. I have teams that tackle very complex scopes within the roofing industry. I know a lot about all of it, but each one of those departments has experts that know much more than I do about a specific discipline. And just like Zach Brown doesn’t drive the car, he doesn’t turn wrenches, he doesn’t run the computer programs, he’s able to coordinate those experts and come up with a really cohesive team that went from a really low year in 2023 to a constructors championship in 2024 and then a constructor and drivers championship in 2025. So it combined my love of motorsports with a lot of business principles I could relate to.

[00:03:53] Matthew Elban:  So Formula one on one hand, slate roofing on the other, not really the connection that I would have anticipated or predicted maybe. I was thinking maybe you’re gonna talk about Manchester United, the treble victories of the late nineties, something like that. But I bet there’s a connection in there somewhere between Formula one and slate roofing, and I’m excited to get into it. So

[00:04:14] Calvin Arrington:  If you’ve ever been on one of our roofs and you watch our teams that have worked together for a while, they move very similar to a well practiced pit crew, the margins that we work on, the x, The difference between being an expert and a very quality product to a substandard or sometimes really slim margins is that attention to detail, similar in f one, that establishes us as a market leader.

[00:04:35] Todd Kavanaugh:  I love it. Calvin, I mentioned at the beginning, and I heard you talk a little bit about the trip to Spain, and I think that’s really cool. And we’ll get to that. Be before we get into that, I just want you to give people a sense of the group that you lead, the steep slope group. When somebody hears commercial steep slope, what does that actually cover?

[00:04:57] Calvin Arrington:  Well, in a broad term, it’s anything that’s not membrane. That’s kinda where I start. I’m lucky to have three different groups that I get to work with in addition to our sheet metal shop or peak metals group. The first group I manage is painted metal, commercial painted metal. So when you go by and you see a standing seam metal roof, we have craftsmen and managers that have done that for decades, and they’re the best in the industry. We also furnish and erect pre engineered metal buildings. That’s something a lot of our customers and even coworkers might not know. If you’re in the Raleigh area or in the Wake Forest or Winston Salem area, we were instrumental in the practice facilities for NC State University and Wake Forest. So we’ve done some really big pre engineered metal building projects. Um, we do a lot of small buildings for utility companies. Duke is one of our Duke Power is one of our, um, big customers. We do a lot of siding, single skin insulated wall panels. So definitely not just metal roofing for that painted metal group. We have a robust metal repair group that goes out and troubleshoots aging out existing metal roofs. They’re really good at troubleshooting and solving problems for customers that have older metal roofs and metal buildings. And then the group that went with me to Spain is our specialty metal group. They concentrate on they don’t do painted metal. Primarily, they use slate, copper, zinc, and they also do commercial shingles, which is sort of roofing one zero one, but it falls into our realm, and they have an expertise in that regard as well.

[00:06:24] Matthew Elban:  Sounds to me like all the different groups you’re talking about, like, they fit inside of the whole baker business. Right? And they might touch multiple parts of it at any one time because some customers might have a bunch of buildings that low slope, and then they might have a handful that have a steep slope. So you’re kinda weaved and woven into a good chunk of our business, it sounds like, which is great.

[00:06:46] Calvin Arrington:  And even within our group, our crews do different things on different weeks. There’s not a typical day. A crew that may be installing shingles today may be doing commercial siding next week. We have slate crews that also do tile. We have copper guys that are versed in zinc. So there’s a lot of variety in what we tackle. The common standard is that quality of quality attention to detail and that historical element of what we do. So I’m just very blessed to work with a lot of very talented people.

[00:07:14] Todd Kavanaugh:  And it’s a pretty broad range as I think about it. Many of you heard Matt introduce himself probably episodes and episodes ago, but he leads up our national accounts program here at Baker. And so I know, Calvin, like, you supported that as well. We have national accounts that have steep slope roofs. Maybe it’s not their entire facility, but it’s a portion of their facility, and you have single ply there. And how that weaves together is a really important part piece of how we go to market as a company.

[00:07:42] Calvin Arrington:  And, historically, that expertise in those steep slope disciplines has been siloed in Raleigh to a certain extent. Corporately, we’re trying to grow that. Part of my charge is to get that skill set trained into our satellite offices so that we can offer Baker’s typical customer across the footprint at least a certain level of that steep slope discipline. And then there’ll be relationships there where this traveling team that does a day in and out can go tackle those more complex and large jobs.

[00:08:10] Matthew Elban:  I can speak to that a little bit, say this, that, like, understanding how we’ve worked together with our different departments, national accounts, and then the metal group that Calvin works with, what we’re able to offer those customers is that level of expertise, and that’s something that not everyone can offer. But we can brag on Calvin’s team a little bit there and say that the level of expertise they’ve got, the craftsmen, true craftsmen in that trade, in that industry, is superior to everybody. It’s fantastic.

[00:08:41] Todd Kavanaugh:  And I think, Calvin, I like how you mentioned I’m kind of going back to the book that you mentioned in having a pit crew. Right? And you mentioned multiple teams that probably have become experts in the, you know, the painted metal versus the team that does the slate and the tile work as well as your premanufactured metal buildings. Those are all very distinct. Right? And that’s I think part of what makes your team in Baker different is that our ability to step into a lane with teams and team members that are specifically trained and experts in that field and that application of roofing.

[00:09:20] Calvin Arrington:  Let’s think about it as you go to your doctor with a heart problem. You’re not gonna go to your GP necessarily. You’re gonna wanna go to that best cardiologist and have access to that skill set and that experience. Baker’s able to offer the specialized solutions to our customers, and we have decades of experience and expertise in those niche markets.

[00:09:41] Matthew Elban:  So one of the things that I’ve always found interesting is history. And when I was younger and probably in high school, history was not my favorite subject. But the older I’ve gotten, the more I really enjoy learning about stuff that is older and buildings, uh, something that’s always fascinated me. And so how they look, how they were built, how old they are, and maybe even who walked inside of them, I can imagine. Right? If I’m up on one of these roofs or or seeing one of these roofs, I’m wondering what all has taken place inside of these structures. So let’s talk for just a minute about maybe the materials. Artisan side of your business, Calvin, really comes down to two materials, maybe a third, slate and tile, and then I always throw copper in there because it really ties in nicely and dovetails to both of them. So for someone who’s never thought hard about either one of these two products, what makes them different from everything else? One of the

[00:10:35] Calvin Arrington:  big differentiator for me is we buy whether it’s, uh, our tile partner. We go and watch them take the raw clay into a completed tile. We’ve been up to our copper partner, watched them melt that material down and create new coils. We’ve seen them harvest those materials from the ground. But the end result is they give us a raw product that has been through quality standards, and we know it’s a quality product. But we then take that and install a roof that is a Baker roof. They’re not on the roof doing inspections, telling us how to apply those materials. We are putting the Baker standard, our Baker details, and we’re gonna provide an install on quality that matches up with the longevity of those products. A typical metal roof properly maintained is a fifty to seventy five year roof. When you get into slate, you’re talking a hundred year lifespan. So the importance of us installing that material correctly is paramount and that’s our partnerships with those suppliers are really critical so that we’re all on the same level with the quality of the product and the quality of the install.

[00:11:38] Matthew Elban:  So let’s let’s talk about one of these specifically right now. We’ll get to the other one in a little bit. Tile. Because I I think it’s something people don’t always necessarily associate with Baker, and they should. We do a lot of tile work, and and I want you to take a few minutes, walk us through it. What does Baker do in the tile world?

[00:11:57] Calvin Arrington:  One of our biggest customers for the the clay tile is Duke University. We have partners with Little Weasy Tile out of Ohio. Um, we’ve had the chance to go tour their facility and watch that raw material, comes in, just as a pile of clay, go through the process, through the artist’s hands, through the kiln. We see the effort they put into color matching and color design. There’s a similar to our sheet metal shop, there’s a quarter of craftsmen that create one off pieces where ridge lines and complex details come together. Incredible amount of attention to detail for those products. So that product looks like just a simple square on a roof to untrained eye, but there’s a lot of work, care, design, and planning that goes into each one of those pieces. For Baker Roofing, let’s go back to Duke University. That layout is incredibly complex. We have a history there. We know how to design the valley layout, the tile layout, and it’s very unique, and we have to be historically accurate. So our team has experience there. We have a technical understanding of that layout. We have a robust preconstruction group with design and CAD capabilities that help us. So that modern technology here in the office mixed with that old world craftsmanship of the install and the manufacturer all comes together for a really remarkable product.

[00:13:16] Matthew Elban:  So you talk about layout for a minute. What do you mean by layout? I think I know what you mean, but explain it to us that maybe aren’t in the side of the business every day.

[00:13:23] Calvin Arrington:  There’s different layouts and designs for those tiles with the headlaps and the exposures. They graduate. If you really are looking at a roof, just the everyday guy will look up and you’ll see what they call hot spots where certain colors are concentrated and it doesn’t give you that random look. But it’s the sizes of the tile as they progress up the roof and through details, there’s the design and layout element to that. It looks random. It it looks haphazard, but there’s a lot of layout and planning that goes into that to make those details come together in a weathertight manner and to be visually appealing.

[00:13:59] Matthew Elban:  It’s interesting the level of care you’re talking about and that it takes that much care, and I believe that it does. I’ve watched a few roofs go on that are tile or slate that have different color patterns, and the level of care goes in to make it look random.

[00:14:14] Calvin Arrington:  That’s right. Random doesn’t happen by accident, and that we have to go through and we have to premix, and there’s a scientific method to that. There’ll be a prescribed mixture from the architect, and you’ve gotta stage and grab those colors and put them into the the bundles for the guys on the roof. And then sometimes you have to step back sort of like a Monet. You gotta step back and look at all those points and make sure the overall aesthetic is what you’re looking for, And there’ll be concentrations that we call, again, hot spots, so you’ve gotta go and break those up. So that random pattern takes a lot of effort and planning to have that appear on the roof.

[00:14:49] Todd Kavanaugh:  Have there been times, Calvin, when you’ve kinda looked in on our projects? From a QA, QC standpoint, you’ve seen the hot spots, and you said, hey. Guys, we gotta take this down. We’re not reaching that random pattern by design that we want. Have you seen that before in our projects?

[00:15:04] Calvin Arrington:  Yep. I’ve definitely seen that. It’s part of the process. We try to you do those QC checks at standard intervals so you’re never getting too far out ahead. And then, you know, we have our motto, always good work at a profit if we can, a loss if we must. And it I’ve had to take things out. We do have times we install a product. It doesn’t come together to our standard. We will pull that out and make sure our end product is what we promise the customer, and it stands behind the Baker name.

[00:15:30] Matthew Elban:  I love that.

[00:15:31] Todd Kavanaugh:  So, Calvin, recently, you partnered with North American slate on a project, I think, with the church that brought a lot of this together. Can you talk us through, uh, that one a little bit?

[00:15:41] Calvin Arrington:  Absolutely. The most recent one was Hayes Barton here in Raleigh. It’s a very prominent church in the Five Points area. Got a lot of attention, a lot of eyes upon it. Beautiful church. We had the dark slate with the bright copper flashings. It’s aesthetically one of my personal favorite aesthetics that we install. We had another project with the North American Slate Group up in the mountains of North Carolina, Valdez. It was the Waldensian Presbyterian Church. That was the first project we tackled with North American slate. That was incredible. We had an opportunity to do a lot of personal things for that church group. We used the same materials, the copper, the North American slate that came over from Spain, and the La Bona Quarry. But earlier, Matt was talking about historic buildings. When we installed the roof on that particular church, we were able to do some things to honor the history of that congregation and that church. They had a bell tower, and it had four sides. When we took the old slate off, we were able to salvage, I believe, eight or 10 pieces of that original slate, and we incorporated into a design, a centerpiece design on each facet. And what we did is we took those pieces to the congregation and everyone who had contributed to the project financially and was a part of this new slate roof, They were able to sign their name, and then we had a laser engraved logo of the church, and we made that a central part of each facet of that cell tower. So now congregation members enter no matter which elevation of the church they’re entering from. They can look up and know their name has been preserved as a part of that roof that they played a part in achieving, and it’ll be there for generations to come. A hundred and twenty years from now, when they replace that roof, they’re gonna be able to see that and know a little bit about the people that were in that building and made preservation of it a priority at that time.

[00:17:36] Todd Kavanaugh:  Wow. That’s really cool.

[00:17:37] Matthew Elban:  That is cool. So that project, I think, is what led to the trip that we’re about to talk about. So set that up for us a little bit. What about that project made you guys say, hey. We need to go to Spain and and meet with North American Slate.

[00:17:52] Calvin Arrington:  So the success of those two projects led to a deepening relationship with North American Slate, which is the distribution arm of Ratchek Companies, which owns, I believe, six different quarries in Spain. So based on our relationship to those two jobs, we expressed an interest to learn more about their process. How did they arrive at the quality product we received on our job site? So we were able to put together a trip. And for Baker, we were able to take multiple layers of our team. I had myself there. We had operations management. We had a sales element with our estimator, and then we were able to bring one of our field superintendents. So we all made the trip over, and we were able to actually go see the spot that our slate came from. Slate’s a wonderful product. I’m a avid hiker. Love the outdoors. Slate is all natural. It comes from the ground. And, historically, the way that they mine that product is they destroy mountains. They move mountains to get to this product, and that’s how it’s been done for centuries. When we went over to Spain, we were able to see that traditional mine. It’s called Labana, and we could see the vein of slate that our product came from. So that was pretty impressive. And the scale and size of that operation was mind boggling. I could try to describe it to you, but I wouldn’t do it justice. And then we were able to also learn about new approaches they were taking to harvesting slate that involve mining techniques, which avoids the destruction of the mountain. They basically surgically go into the earth. They find the pockets of the slate, remove it, and, aesthetically, nothing is disturbed with the mountain. So, again, as an outdoorsman, as a hiker, I had a real appreciation for that care for the environment and that new approach. But the catalyst for going over was really to understand the processes that that product had gone to before it arrived on our job site and see how they arrived with such a quality product.

[00:19:50] Todd Kavanaugh:  So 4,000 miles across the Atlantic, the other side of the pond, and then you went 1,800 feet underground.

[00:19:59] Calvin Arrington:  That’s right.

[00:20:00] Todd Kavanaugh:  Paint that picture of what that was like. You know, I’ve seen that stuff on TV and, like, the metal gates close and you go down and the claustrophobia sets in. What was that like to go through that experience?

[00:20:10] Calvin Arrington:  So it was eye opening for me. I don’t have anything to compare it to. As I said, we rode through this region, and we looked at a couple traditional quarries. And they were massive operations with just tons of material being moved. And we when we arrived at the new quarry, there’s simply a small tunnel entrance, Not much you know, it’s big enough for a large dump truck, but that’s about it. And, you know, we met. We got our safety gear, and we entered the mine with a bunch of small European compact cars, to be honest. And we drove for quite a while. And, occasionally, we would meet these incredibly large dump trucks hauling slate out, and we’d have to do do a little dance to get out of the way. But we continued down. The tunnels are well lit, extremely well ventilated, and you just make your way down. And all of a sudden, you come to the chamber that is active, where they’re mining this particular slate. And what that involves, if you can imagine a 500 foot long chamber about a 150 foot high, and there’s incredibly large machines in there operating, but they look like toys until you make your way down on foot. And they mine it in layers. So what they do is they’ll take the top layer, they remove it, and then they go down with a large diamond saw. So they basically drill into the slate from above and laterally, and they run a diamond blade through that, hook it to a saw that slowly creates slate blocks that are then moved by loader into a dump truck and moved out of the plant.

[00:21:42] Matthew Elban:  Alright. Pause for one second. A slate block. Right. I know what a slate roof looks like. They’re about that thick, quarter of an inch, maybe three eighths of an inch to half inch thick maybe, 12 inches wide, 18 inches tall. That’s a pretty common size, I think. How big is the block?

[00:21:59] Calvin Arrington:  Think family car or SUV. So the scale is amazing. And one thing to mention, when you think about slate and all this material they’re moving, the percentage of slate after its mine that makes its way as a finished product is 11%. 11% is what makes it onto usable product that is put onto roofs.

[00:22:21] Matthew Elban:  So that family minivan, 89% of that yeah. 89% of that is waste product.

[00:22:27] Calvin Arrington:  Yeah. So that was mind blowing to me. When you look at a open quarry, there are basically new mountains built with the spoils, the slate that is not appropriate, not doesn’t meet the quality standard. This new mining procedure cuts down on that, of course, but there’s a lot of effort to mine that 11%. So when you see the price point of slate, you do have a tremendous longevity advantage over other roofing materials, but you also have to take in consideration the labor, the logistics, the technology that was required to get that raw product from the ground to your job site.

[00:23:04] Matthew Elban:  That’s incredible.

[00:23:05] Calvin Arrington:  So, yeah, if you can imagine, they’re removing this mountain from the inside, 1,800 foot in the ground, back up a little bit. Before we get to that point, I had a chance to meet their engineers. In previous life, career wise for me, I worked for a geotechnical engineering firm. So I am used to strata and drilling. And they were able to walk us through the amount of effort it takes to map out a mountain before they ever put a blade into the ground to go find them. So they have got a three d map of the different layers of slate. It often is at the border of quartz, so there will be a nice quartz line and then a slate deposit. They map it out, so they find where it turns back on itself, and they have these large sections that they attack with the different chambers. So, again, don’t really think about it. But before they ever started mining, the technology, the expense, and time they put into locating it is pretty astronomical.

[00:24:00] Todd Kavanaugh:  That is an incredible story that the roof on these churches and and maybe both, I’m not sure, was Hayes Bar in, started underground in the mountain in Spain.

[00:24:13] Calvin Arrington:  Again, they take the saw and they produce these family sized car shaped blocks that are then transferred into dump trucks. Those dump trucks take it out of the mine to a processing facility. We’ve toured plants or quarries in The US. They’re impressive. We have great partners in The US. But when we went to Spain and we saw Rafcek is a German company. They bring a new approach to how they tackle slate with technology, so they’ve made a rather large investment in machinery, facilities, and personnel. So those large blocks then get cut into smaller pieces. They have computer guided saws that are cutting those down. That’s a little bit different than what we’ve ever seen before. And those blocks move through the processing plant to where they’re in about a two by two square that goes to a craftsman who then takes a chisel and by hand, by eye, chisels those blocks into individual slates. And they had, I believe, 10 different guys working on those lines, and that’s what they do all day. And it is much harder than it looks. We had our guys try it. We did admirable at it, but those guys that do it every day anything that looks easy in our industry is probably really, really difficult, so those guys are experts at it. And then if you turn and look, there’s a machine they have developed that can do the same thing. There was one of those running at the time. So, again, you’ve got the old world process with the new technology side by side.

[00:25:42] Matthew Elban:  So how the speed. Okay. We got it down from this giant car down to a two foot by two foot cube or block. I can recognize that size. How many pieces of slate come out of that, and how long does it take to process for one guy to chisel away at that all day long? How long are we talking?

[00:25:58] Calvin Arrington:  We watched them chisel down those blocks and then maybe five minutes to go through that block, and that’s pretty steady and gifted. And I believe they were taking seven trucks out of those mines each day. So, again, that’s a large volume. You have to take out the waste. But we visited their lay down yard, and the scale of that was amazing. Just hundreds and hundreds of squares of this finished product. But one of the other things I wanted to note is as it’s going through this process, they’ve incorporated lots of QC checks. I was amazed at how many different personnel throughout the process was physically sounding the slate. So they can tap it and you can listen for the residents in a slate block that is sound and appropriate. So it may be someone that’s just doing a minor task in the line, but they’re tapping it and listening. The vice president and president will

[00:26:48] Matthew Elban:  because if it is brittle,

[00:26:50] Calvin Arrington:  you know the throwaway are

[00:26:51] Matthew Elban:  gonna remove it.

[00:26:52] Calvin Arrington:  Yep. If they sound it and it’s a dull sound, they discard it. So it never it doesn’t progress down the line. Because if

[00:26:59] Matthew Elban:  it gets on your roof and it’s that got that dull sound, obviously, it’s eventually, it’s gonna crack, probably prematurely, and you got a major leak That’s right.

[00:27:06] Calvin Arrington:  Prone to cracking because it’s not structurally sound. And that’s why the eleven percent success rate has to do with that. There’s only a small portion of it that is structurally appropriate. But it was universal. Everyone seemed to have that ability. It was part of their process built into every step along the way, And we were lucky to be hosted by some of Rastcheck’s upper management, definitely office guys, but they immediately went over, grabbed the tool, and they were double checking those slates. So it was impressive to see the commitment across the team to that quality standard.

[00:27:39] Matthew Elban:  That’s awesome.

[00:27:41] Todd Kavanaugh:  Matt, I’d say let’s jump to seven and make that transition to PNZ because we spent a lot on the, uh, tile and artist and no.

[00:27:51] Matthew Elban:  This has been fantastic. I certainly, uh, I’m engaged in this. I’m I love watching videos of people. I’ve actually watched a video on YouTube of someone with that cube that you’re talking about, the slate, and hammering it out with a chisel. I’ve watched that. I think to myself, I could not do that. I like to build stuff. I like to do woodworking. That, I could not do.

[00:28:10] Calvin Arrington:  I have a universal appreciation for anybody that does their job well. No matter what that is, I like guys that can make the difficult look easy, and we were surrounded by Spanish teammates that are able to do that routinely.

[00:28:22] Matthew Elban:  That’s really cool. So we spent a lot of time now talking about the artisan side, slate, the history, the craft of it. Well, you’re talking about these guys that make the really difficult look easy and how impressive that is. So your group also does something that I think is actually really interesting on the innovation side. Let’s talk about metal over metal retrofit work. So metal roof, we’re gonna put a new metal roof on top. How do we do that? The PMZ system.

[00:28:49] Calvin Arrington:  Talk to us about that. Absolutely. Historically, if we had an industrial client who needed a new metal roof, he’s got a building. It houses a lot of high dollar equipment he’s invested in for his line of work, and his roof has aged out and he needs to replace it. The metal option historically would have been to take that existing roof off and replace it. Pretty straightforward. But in that process, you’re opening up his production facility to water intrusion. You’re potentially disrupting his production and costing him money, quite frankly. There have been a products in our industry where we can cover a metal roof and membrane, and it allows to cover that roof and not open it up to water, and we not not interrupt what they’re doing. Recently, we have developed a product that allows us to do a metal over metal retrofit. And, basically, the description of that, if you can picture a standing seam metal roof running from eave to ridge in a straight line, we have developed a product that’s a Notch z purlin, so a z shape out of 16 gauge material, and we notch it out in our sheet metal shop where it fits over that existing panel rib. So we attach that to the existing structure, and we do that at every existing line or the existing structure of the building. So when we’re done, we have this row of notch z’s that fit tightly over the existing metal panel. Well, that z is gonna be two and a half, three inches tall, and it creates a cavity that we can then fill with bad insulation. So for the customer, that allows them to have additional r value, so they’re gonna get savings on their HVC heating, cooling. And then we go in and basically put a new metal roof, a fifty to seventy year roof, on top of that NOHESY purlin system. So in essence, we have given them a brand new metal roof without opening up their building to any potential damage, and we haven’t had to ask them to stop production of anything they’re making in that building that forms a profit for them. So it’s very nonintrusive. It’s a really good innovative product that we have in house, and it’s becoming a really innovative product that we can offer our customers.

[00:30:54] Matthew Elban:  Yeah. It’s interesting you brought up the lack of having to shut down. Right? So, like, I’ve been in the roofing industry now for fifteen years or so, and the number of times I’d have to have a conversation with a customer, say, hey. We’re tearing off pretty good chunk of your roof and gonna go back with a new product. Maybe it’s the same stuff, just new. You can’t be underneath of that area when we’re working. So if you’re tearing off slate, a church is easy. They’re probably not having a service Monday to Friday when y’all are working, and you’re probably not doing the roofing work on Sunday when they would typically have a service. So it won’t disrupt a church. But a manufacturing facility where you have to tear off part of

[00:31:32] Calvin Arrington:  the roof And downtime is dollars. Downtime is dollars. Right?

[00:31:36] Matthew Elban:  So we don’t wanna do that. We we’ve so, okay, found this new product, I guess, innovated this new product that works, and we call it the PMZ system. Is that correct?

[00:31:45] Calvin Arrington:  Sorry. It’s the peak metal z, which is basically the z describes the shape of that framing member, and then the notches. There’s a customizable notch layout for the different panels that we’ll we will be going over. But in an essence, it allows us to build a structural bridge, fill that gap with thermal insulation, and then provide the customer with a new, typically, 24 gauge standing seam roof that will last them for at least fifty years if they maintain it, probably seventy to seventy five. So you

[00:32:15] Matthew Elban:  said one other thing that I wanna call out there. Uh, you said different profiles. So I know from being in this industry that you walk up on a roof, and a metal roof is not a metal roof is not a metal roof. They all look a little bit different. Different different panel profiles, right, different shapes, sizes. This product, the PMZ system, will work with all of them, most of them. Talk to us a little bit about that.

[00:32:40] Calvin Arrington:  You know, I hate to say all just because there’s probably some obscure panel we have not gotten to yet. We have a custom PMZ that we have in the wings. So when we get that one off panel we never encountered, we can engage our design team, our engineers to tackle that. But to answer your question, the vast majority of your typical panels, we have a solution. Whether that’s the panel that’s on the roof currently that we’re going over, we can design a z to nest over that, and we can also go back with the panel of your choice. Typically, we’re going on lower slope, maybe, you know, half and 12 industrial or warehouse buildings. A lot of times, that is a trapezoidal panel. It’s got a trapezoidal element, provides a good strong panel. And then when we go back, our typical is a 2,500. It’s a two inch high metal standing seam that’s mechanically seamed. We include design services with that product. We have a team of engineers we work with that we engineer specifically for your project, so we know we’re up to code. This product, one of the problems our customers are facing more and more often, if you have an older pre engineered metal building, the framing spacing doesn’t meet modern code. So if we were to go in and put a new roof on, we would have to put subsequent framing, more framing in to get the spacing in the corners, especially. With this product, we have hat channels that we can put in the corners that will strengthen those, and we’re able to, without opening the building, bring that structure up to structural code. So it’s another plus for an owner that’s investing in a property they’re gonna keep for generations, and they’re filling with high dollar investment in materials and processes. That’s awesome.

[00:34:24] Todd Kavanaugh:  As we wrap up here Right. We haven’t even we haven’t got to dig too deep in a lot of the things that you mentioned, but we’ve talked about artisan roofing, like the tile and the the metal, the copper, and the slate. You’ve mentioned earlier in the conversation pre engineered metal buildings and now metal over metal retrofit. There’s a lot happening in your group. Um, Um, and I’m not gonna say what is the thing that you’re most excited about going to the air because I don’t wanna alienate any one of those. But what are some of the things, knowing all of that, that you’re most excited about as we head into the summer and into the fall and into the winter again as your group continues to grow?

[00:35:02] Calvin Arrington:  I think if I had to pick one product, it’s probably the PNZ just because there’s unlimited potential there. We see a large customer base that needs that solution, and we also realize that not a lot of our competition are offering that. So it’s something we can provide alongside of other offerings that we give currently, and it gives more of a balanced suite of services to our customer. But things that excite me, I’ve got a team here, and we’ve mentioned a vast array of skills and interest. I’ve got guys that have been in the industry for forty years. I’ve got guys that are just starting their journey through the the roofing career. And watching those guys interact, the new technology coming in, the young guys are champions of that. I’ve got the old guys taking the time to pass along their expertise and their experience. So as our teams work and we tackle these various scopes and the artistry and intricacies of it all, it’s really good to to see our industry being handed off to that next generation. One of our big challenges is training. We’re developing training programs. We’re trying to figure out how do we make that next wave of craftsmen. But I think our industry is very healthy right now. And if you watch our team interact and the culture we have, I think it’s in good hands moving forward.

[00:36:19] Todd Kavanaugh:  Gosh. It’s been, uh, educational and really entertaining to to have this conversation. And as we close out, we always like to ask our guests the same question we let in with, what are you reading? And now I like to close with, um, what are you listening to? What’s on heavy rotation? Could be an audiobook, could be a podcast, but what’s on heavy rotation for Calvin?

[00:36:42] Calvin Arrington:  As I mentioned, I’m a huge motorsports fan, so I lent listen to a lot of motorsports podcast. Um, I’m a classic country fan. I listen to a lot of classic country. I think for my Spotify recap, my age was 81. So, um, so but I have two young boys as well. I’ve got a 19 year old and a 16 year old. They introduced me to a lot of new artists. So if you hop in my truck tomorrow, there’s no telling. You may hear Wayne Newton, Conway Twitty, or Big X the plug. There’s there’s no clue what you’re gonna have.

[00:37:12] Matthew Elban:  You are not gonna live down to 81 right there, buddy. I’m sorry. I’m holding on to that one for a future date.

[00:37:18] Calvin Arrington:  Um, I got no shame. I I am who I am, and it’s unique for sure.

[00:37:22] Todd Kavanaugh:  We’re gonna see if we can add that to your email signature. Listening age, n d one.

[00:37:27] Matthew Elban:  Calvin, thank you for being on here today. Uh, I think one of the things, real quick, I’m most excited about you mentioned the PMZ system. I think what I’m most excited about is that the number of customers that in our future, short term and long term future for Baker Roofing, that will be impacted by one of the teams that you’re leading is only gonna grow.

[00:37:47] Calvin Arrington:  I I agree.

[00:37:47] Matthew Elban:  And I’m super excited to to see that and hear some of those stories. Maybe in a year, we bring you back, only talk about some of the new projects that you’ve worked on and some of the new exciting stuff that you’ve been involved in. So, again, thank you for being part of this. This was a side of Baker that I think a lot of people, even inside of our company, don’t get to see often enough. It was a chance for us to kinda pull back the curtain a little bit there. The craft, the partnerships, willingness to travel halfway around the world to understand where the material comes from, and, really, that’s the level of care and that’s the standard. So thank you.

[00:38:20] Calvin Arrington:  Thank you for the opportunity.

[00:38:21] Todd Kavanaugh:  Yeah. And to everybody listening, you know, next time you walk by a cathedral in Raleigh or a church in Raleigh or out in Western North Carolina or the Omni Grove Park Inn, the list goes on and on, there’s a real chance that somebody from Baker here had handed it. And that’s really something for Calvin seemed to be proud of, but for a company as a whole for us to be proud of.

[00:38:43] Matthew Elban:  So thanks for listening to Under the Roof. Follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and please share it with somebody who you think might appreciate it. And remember,

[00:38:52] Todd Kavanaugh:  we always end with this. We shall do good work at a profit if we can, at a loss if we must, but always good work. See you next time. That wraps up this episode of Under the Roof. Thanks for joining us and being part of the Baker Roofing family.

[00:39:09] Matthew Elban:  If you liked what you heard, share it with your crew. Hit the follow button and keep the conversation going wherever you work.

[00:39:16] Todd Kavanaugh:  We’re here to keep you informed, inspired, and included because the more connected we are, the better we work together.

[00:39:24] Matthew Elban:  And as always, we’ll leave you with this. We shall do good work at a profit if we can, at a loss if we must, but always good work. See you next time.